Helen Clark has clashed with a community worker over whether the proposed Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill will make things worse for south Auckland.
Appearing on Newshub's The Cannabis Question debate on Wednesday night, the former Prime Minister and Ronji Tanielu had a vigorous argument about the benefits of legalisation.
Tanielu understands there are some protections within the proposed Bill, but doesn't believe they are enough.
"When you look at pokie machines, liquor stores and loan sharks in our communities there are broken models already operating in our communities. Now we're thinking about experimenting by legalising cannabis," he said.
"I think it's a broken model that we want to apply that doesn't work in one area and all of a sudden we think it's magically going to work in another area.
"I think coming from a community perspective, from a community I love in south Auckland, I believe the challenge here is that I think this is an ideological drive for middle New Zealand to legislate their own agenda but package it in a way that it's going to help us brown communities around the country. I absolutely disagree with that."
Clark argued that legalisation brings out into the open what is already happening now, although she notes it won't lead to "Amsterdam-style cafes" as people will need to be discrete and there will be restrictions over advertising.
"If people have an image of sitting outside the Manukau Mall or whatever smoking - this isn't going to happen," she said.
"I really think, Ronji, think about the tinnie shops that are in your community now - it's out there now and it's got no control and we're starting here with something that is far stricter than you ever saw for alcohol or tobacco."
Tanielu disagreed, saying legalisation won't get rid of the tinnie houses.
"I've talked to some of the boys who are in that world. You're not going to get rid of them if we legalise cannabis. You're never going to get rid of that market," he said.
"One of the things I'm passionate about is the voice of communities. Right now the voice of communities is disempowered by the liquor industry, by the pokie machines, by the lenders.
"So when we're talking about this model that's already broken in other areas and we think that communities or all of us are suddenly going to have some sort of power or voice, it doesn't happen in those places. What makes us think it's going to happen if we legalise cannabis?"
