Election 2023: Grant Robertson, Nicola Willis, James Shaw and David Seymour go head-to-head in finance debate

Election 2023: Grant Robertson, Nicola Willis, James Shaw and David Seymour go head-to-head in finance debate
Photo credit: Getty Images

The finance spokespeople from the top four polling parties have gone head-to-head in ASB's Great Finance Debate on Thursday.    

Labour's Grant Robertson, National's Nicola Willis, the Greens' James Shaw and ACT's David Seymour discussed their finance policies and views.    

The debate was moderated by Newstalk ZB and TVNZ host Jack Tame.

This article is no longer being updated.

8:42pm – The debate has now finished.  

8:41pm - Ministry for Tourism?

Robertson says he's happy with the current settings.

Seymour says no he wouldn't want one.

Shaw says accountability gets lost in big ministries and smaller more focused ones are better. But he supports a Tourism Ministry.

8:32pm - Willis says she doesn't think her foreign buyers tax would increase prices in Queenstown because it would be a "tiny fraction of the market".

Shaw then interjected to ask how National would make enough money to pay for their tax cuts if it's a "tiny fraction of the market". Willis said because a tiny fraction of the market is still hundreds of homes.  

Willis says supply is the key to affordable housing in Queenstown.  

8:29pm - Willis is now discussing her party's plan to remove Labour's "landlord taxes". She says she doesn't know if it would make prices more expensive.  

Shaw says regardless of the tax settings rents go up because of supply issues not taxes. Seymour says he agrees but called for the "war on landlords" to be stopped.

8:23pm - Willis says New Zealand needs to let private capital help build infrastructure and faster consenting.  

8:21pm - Seymour says adequate infrastructure for immigrants is key because otherwise people get "awfully xenophobic".  

8:20pm - No one wanted to give an exact number for how many migrants should be coming into New Zealand each year.  

Shaw said New Zealand is currently terrible at providing housing and infrastructure for the migrants who come here and needs to do better.  

8:18pm - Willis says her party would change the minimum income requirement that is currently in place which means migrants could be paid much more than Kiwi workers in the same role.  

She also said they would crack down on beneficiaries to make sure New Zealanders who can be working are.

8:17pm – Tame is now asking about Labour's immigration reset. Robertson says businesses are in support of it.

He added migration is expected to drop. Migrant exploitation is "never acceptable" and says the Government is cracking down on it. 

8:09pm - Shaw has suggested voters "don't actually care National's [tax] numbers don't add up, they just want a tax cut".  

8:07pm - New Zealand is currently on the hook for billions of dollars if we are to meet our climate goals and Shaw says they are not being adequately accounted for.  

"Climate change is actually a significant problem and we need to deal with it," Shaw said in response to Willis' questioning how the Emissions Trading Scheme works.

8:03pm - Willis was talking about delivering tax cuts for New Zealanders when Robertson interjected, "No you're not because you can't afford it".

Seymour interjected, "We can".

7:59pm - Seymour is defending the "human cost" of his spending cuts. He said no frontline services will be cut and people will have less debt.

He hit out at Government department red tape and budgets.  

Seymour says he wants 15,000 public servants gone "as fast as possible".  

7:56pm - Robertson and Willis are now discussing COVID-19 spending. Robertson said it was "balanced and reasonable" and to look after people.  

Willis accused the Government of causing inflation by overspending.  

7:53pm - Shaw says, "frankly there was a massive injection of capital into the economy" during COVID-19 but he says it was done to keep people alive.  

7:49pm - Tame just asked whether any party would bring down inflation faster than ACT.  

7:49pm - More barbs between Willis and Robertson over a wealth tax.

7:48pm - Tame then told Shaw to sell the crowd. Shaw said the Green Party is actually proposing more income tax cuts than National that they are asking higher earners to chip in slightly more.

He said about 2.5 percent of New Zealanders would be affected by it.  

7:46pm - Tame asked Shaw about a wealth tax but was interrupted by a loud boo from the crowd.  

7:45pm - Robertson then joked it didn't matter because an ACT and National coalition would have to use Seymour's tax plan.  

7:44pm - Seymour was asked whether he agrees with National's tax policy. Seymour joked he's astonished National is now in debate about taxing more while Labour isn't.  

Tame re-asked whether he thinks National's tax policy is credibly but he responded, "I don't think it matters".

7:41pm - Willis claims she has just released the numbers which is disputed by Robertson and Tame.  

7:40pm - Robertson has once again challenged her to show the costings. Willis is now going over the methodology for their tax plan.  

7:39pm - Willis says she stands by her party's costings and adds economists all have different opinions. She says the foreign buyer tax will work and she will use it to let Kiwis keep more of their money.  

7:38pm - Willis is now being quizzed on whether her party's foreign buyer tax costings stand up.

7:37pm –Bit of argy-bargy between Robertson and Seymour over Labour's promise to remove GST from fresh fruit and vegetables.  

Robertson was asked to defend his policy but was interrupted by Seymour who said, "Oh this will be good".  

It didn't go down well with Robertson who hit back, "Well David I could take your completely unbiased view of the world or...."

7:33pm - She's promised to cut "waste and backroom democracy". She also criticised the Ministry for Pacific People's budget increases.  

When asked what the budget for it would be under National, Willis said she will ask it and others to find savings.  

7:31pm - Willis said she has put out a 30 page document with New Zealanders getting to keep more of their own money at its heart.

7:30pm - Robertson has hit out at Willis over questions about his party's spending. "At least I've got a plan. Where are your costings? Show us the costings, Nicola!" Roberton yelled.  

7:28pm - But Robertson is promising not to go over his budgets if elected because he says the party will respond to the circumstances in front of them.  

7:27pm - Robertson is now being asked how many times in the past three budgets he has gone above or beyond. He says probably one or two but pointed to the COVID-19 pandemic as a reason.

He also pointed out Cyclone Gabrielle and other climate events during those periods.  

"We have to respond to the events in front of us," he said.

7:25pm - Shaw says the climate crisis is a huge opportunity for technology and infrastructure growth which Greens would deliver. He says renewable energy would help cut bills and pollution.

He says now is the time to be bold.  

7:23pm - Seymour says ACT needs to be in Government because New Zealand needs "real change". He hit out at Government spending, saying it’s not getting the results it should be.

He says ACT would be "honest" about what this country can afford. New Zealand risks not reaching its potential as a first world country if the current trend continues, he says. 

7:22pm - Willis says inflation and cost of living are out of control. She says National will focus on growing and repairing the economy while lifting incomes and reducing the cost of living.

She says National will stop wasteful spending. 

7:20pm - Robertson says Labour represents a path towards progress and balance. He says he will ensure every New Zealander is given the chance to succeed.  

7:18pm - The first question is: "Why is your party best suited to lead the country in this economy?"

7:17pm – Jack Tame is now welcoming Labour's Grant Robertson, National's Nicola Willis, the Greens' James Shaw and ACT's David Seymour to the stage.  

7:10pm - Lewers says the debate is about helping voters make an informed decision this election.  

He says the debate is particularly important for Queenstown, which has massive issues with infrastructure and high house prices.  

7:08pm -  It has begun. Queenstown Mayor Glyn Lewers is speaking to the audience.  

6:58pm – The Great Debate is about to begin.  

6:36pm – Meanwhile, Chris Hipkins has recommitted to a promise Labour made six years ago but never fulfilled.  

Read more here.  

6:18pm – It's been a tough day for National's Nicola Willis after several highly regarded economists claimed her party's foreign buyer tax costing had a multi-million dollar yearly fiscal hole.    

Willis however stood by her party's figures, saying it's "hardly surprising" different economists disagree about things.   

She said National's numbers have been independently assessed by Castalia economic advisors.   

"Our figures are conservative and assume that sales captured by the tax will be significantly less than half the number of sales to foreigners before the ban came into place," Willis said.   

"We are committed to implementing tax relief that will deliver up to $250 a fortnight for an average income family with young children."  

Read more here.