The scrapping of the multi-billion-dollar submarine contract, struck in 2016, has triggered a diplomatic crisis.
If Australia is punished and the EU seeks to reward the countries that haven't blotted their copybooks, Indonesia and NZ could be in luck.
"I think they just want to hide over there and hope that no one turns up."
He said there is no doubt the new AUKUS pact is about China.
There are at least 53 Kiwis and 37 Afghans who assisted our Defence Force stuck there.
The story is getting attention across the ditch.
It was a decision of the Defence Force, his office says.